On having friends: "It feels very ephemeral," he said of spending casual time with friends. "You go to see a movie with a friend and it's awesome for like two hours, but then it's over with -- that's it. Nothing has been produced from that." (CNN.com)
On personal relationships: "I find business relationships are easier. You have to sign a piece of paper.” (NY Times)
On work/life balance: "I reserve the right to sleep right here on the couch. I don't have a social life here in Boston. Everyone is dedicated to and working incredibly long hours. It's almost as busy here on Saturday as it is on Tuesday." (Mass High Tech)
Are you disturbed by these comments from a leader in our tech community? I am. I'm not impressed by the bravado, and I don't think the work ethic is impressive. In fact, I think Seth is setting a poor example for the tech community. In my opinion, the greatest challenge of a start-up is to find work/life balance: he just hasn't figured that out yet.Some of Seth's employees might buy into this manic behavior, but I'm guessing the majority of them wish that he would get a life. It's one thing to ask people to work hard, but it's another thing to set an example of having no social life and working every weekend. How can SCVNGR provide a healthy workplace environment if Seth sets an example by sleeping at the office? At Punchbowl, hard work ebbs and flows -- we work towards very aggressive deadlines, while we maintain a healthy perspective. In fact, one of our best employees spends the majority of his weekends skiing. And everyday, I leave the office at 6pm to make sure I'm home to have dinner with my family and put my 1 year old daughter to bed.
I'm embarrassed that the press (and some VC's) have glorified Seth's behavior. I don't believe that this is the right example to set for employees or for the tech community. Believe me, I'm all for working hard, but there is a time and a place to take care of your body and soul and to feed your mind with other things outside of work. There are lots of young people in our community that are looking up to Boston start-up CEO's. It's our job to show them that you can have a successful start-up without having to sacrifice everything in your life. How many would-be CEO's are we scaring off with the message that you have to work non-stop and give up your life in order to have a successful start-up?
Perhaps Seth is purposefully exaggerating to generate press for his company. In fact, in a recent Mass High Tech article, he claimed that "We interview 100 to 120 people for every person that we hire." Either this is a mis-quote or just a bunch of bullshit. If they only spend 15 minutes per interview, with 100 people per position, that's 25 hours just for the first round interviews. The company has roughly 60 employees at this point. I seriously doubt they've spent a total of 187.5 days interviewing 6000 people. So we can only hope that this example of Seth's exaggeration has carried over into how he speaks about his work/life balance. Maybe he does relax with friends and enjoy life outside of work once in a while.
I hope this post generates a lot of conversation among Boston-area start-up CEO's. I believe it's our responsibility to demonstrate that a healthy work/life balance is achievable even as we build the next great companies in Boston.
SWAMI SAYS: Hey, Seth Priebatsch: get a life. Demonstrate that you can start a company and achieve work/life balance. That what it takes to be a great leader.
P.S. Seth: let me know when you'd like to catch a movie together. I'm buying.
29 comments:
Well spoken Swami.
While your comments are rather sharp towards the guy, I do fully agree that the notion that one must not have a life outside of work to run a successful business very frustrating.
Being a young person looking to start a business I know my main priority in life is the quality of life and health of; my partner, my family, my friends and myself. Now that might actually be helped by hard work up to a point, but beyond which continued work is harmful to all these things.
If you asked me to choose between running a successful business and having a good quality of life with the people I love, I would choose the latter every time. This doesn't mean I'm not cut out for running a business, it just means I'm not mindlessly focused on it to the point that it consumes my life.
Great write-up, Matt.
The funny thing is that I've seen Facebook pictures of Seth (we have mutual friends) hanging out with friends and doing "ephemeral" - aka "just for fun" - things.
Matt, you're definitely hitting a nerve here - no doubt about that. I think that there are cases to be made on both sides of this fence. One could argue the case for Steve Wozniak, Jobs, Gates, the Google guys, Zuckerberg and what it took for them to do what they did (still doing?). Others could make the case that a work-life balance is also a measuring stick for true entrepreneurial success - after all, once business is done, what else is there? How do you enjoy the fruits of your success? I tend to favor the latter, like you, but that's because I have those values, those principles. Not everyone does. I don't have children either, so I've been able to take professional risks that I otherwise couldn't. As a father I know you've seen your life change in dramatic ways, good ways, and that's had an impact on how you operate your business. We're a lot older, and in some respects perhaps wiser, than young Seth. But I admire what he's doing. Like a dedicated baseball player who leaves everything on the field, works out 7 days/week, leaving no time for anything but the sport and his goals.
I bumped into a SCVNGR employee a few weeks ago and, sparing confidential details, what I heard was the point you made - they're getting tired, fast, burnt-out. And the press machine doesn't stop. Soon, people tune out, it becomes noise. But you can't deny the successes they appear to be achieving.
I agree with you - but I can't argue that Seth's way is better or worse. Only time will tell. He's a young guy, and as the New York Times said, he's hypomanic. I can relate to that. At my most hypomanic phases, I always paid a price - personally. Friends and family took a back seat, and that's never good. At the end of the day, health, family, friends is all you really have. If you look at Seth's history as an entrepreneur, he's in a whole different league - he really is. Not better, not worse, just different, and it seems his drive and his values are a result of those that were instilled in him at an early age. Different values than I grew up with, and I imagine you too. Not better, not worse, just different.
Great blog post, ballsy too. I'm going to noodle on it and post a follow-up once I've fully digested this!
He's successful and you're not. When building a business (let alone VC backed) it takes a huge amount of time and resource. You write a blog and preach about your work/life balance, when you neither have a job or a life 'nuff said.
that's 25 hours just for the first round interviews
Why? That's one person spending their afternoons for one week. That sounds like a reasonable expenditure for something as important as an early hire.
Also, if 60 employees split those 187 hours up, that means each employee did 3 hours of interviews. Doesn't seem that crazy to me at all.
He'll die a virgin.
"That first year in business was incredible. I remember sitting in that little office till 10pm and then still being so pumped up, I would drive over to the gym I belonged to and run 5 to 10 miles on the treadmill going through that day, and the next in my head.Other days I would get so involved with learning a new piece of software that I would forget to eat and look up at the clock thinking it was 6 or 7pm and see that it was 1am or 2am. Time would fly by" - Mark Cuban- A pretty good leader....
100% agree. The kid may be smart, but he's got some even smarter grown-ups looking after him. They should watch the exaggeration, it's quite noticeable.
Took the words right out of my mouth. Also, "game layers on top of the real world" isn't generating revenue no matter how often you say it out-loud.
I whole heartily agree. A poor balance of work and personal life can burn people out. Too many computer types are people that go into computing because they had a relatively low interest in people (read low people skills). Great software is very people oriented and aware. Start by being aware of your own personal balance with the computer.
Also, great call on the BS concerning interviewing. This elitism is so stupid. Great software is 80% great janitoring and 20% great engineering.
I heard Aaron Sorkin is writing a screenplay about Seth. It's going to be called "The Gaming Layer." Just a rumor.
This is a very odd statement not just from a CEO, but a person leading the development of a social product. It shows no awareness of or appreciation for how most of our social connections got started in the first place, and that's face to face connections...at least for most of us.
I think feeling satisfied with your work/life fit is very personal...and it changes over time. In my 20's I worked a lot...by choice. In my 40's I say "no" more by choice. I'm a different person now.
As for Seth - if he's happy - whatever. As long as he doesn't expect his employees to live that manic life I say "whatever."
I do guess there's a lot of bravado in his quotes and statements and for sure some bullsh*t.
Very interesting post. This is Ben Rubin - Co-Founder and CTO of Zeo Inc. - another Boston startup.
As background I know Seth fairly well - and its personal - not business. Mostly hiking, climbing, etc.
* Seth *does* work ridiculously hard. He sacrifices the rest of his life to work. I think it's overkill.
* I believe this overkill does trickle down to the rest of the company in unhealthy ways.
* I also think he is sensationalist about this and other elements of his company and personality. It gets SCVNGR recognition and is all above-board and good stuff.
* I am a firm believer that startups can and should have appropriate work/life balance.
* I wrote a blog post about this. The 'fellow entrepreneur' is Seth: http://bsrubin.com/?p=43 . If this post interested you read my blog post as well.
* And here is the kicker. I may be *wrong*. Maybe Seth has it right - and the right culture to have is a work till you drop - sleep when you are dead LETS IPO THIS THING culture. I sure hope not...
Ben
Refreshing to hear someone arguing for startups that value a work-life balance. the desire to have a family is why I left startups for more established companies.
Agreed. When I read that article, I just felt a little sorry for him.
Of course, Priebatsch is only 19 years old or something. Maybe he'll figure it out at some point and realize what he's missing. Or, maybe it's a symptom of a very sheltered and socially-inept person. The way his parents raised him bordered on abusive.
I know several people who focused entirely on career straight out of high school. They are now approaching their 40s and starting to act like irresponsible children.
I don't know anything about being the CEO of a start-up business, but I do know a lot about working hard. For my life, I need a balance to survive. However, my experience with so-called "work-a-holics" is that lifestyle is more of a symptom of a personality defect rather than a choice. Meaning, they have difficulty with social situations and work is an easy pastime in which to immerse yourself.
I think that the real issue is sustainability. Seth's model can produce buzz and possibly significant results, but it is not sustainable. So it is a high risk and high reward gamble. Other start-ups may put more emphasis on building a sustainable team and culture to survive some rocky times. I prefer the second option because I think that with a good team success is bound to occur in the long run.
Also, I was not aware that the Swami was without a job or a life...
Couldn't agree with you more. If everyone lived this lifestyle, just think about all the time we'd have to create lame game layers on top of the world and monetize day-to-day activities!
Maybe Seth should sleep a little less and dot a few more "i"s...
Magazine sues Cambridge start-up
By Erin Ailworth
Globe Staff / November 3, 2010
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SCVNGR Inc., a Cambridge mobile gaming start-up backed by Google, is being sued by a bridal magazine publisher for trademark infringement over a name it has used to promote engagement ring scavenger hunts for jewelry store clients.
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In a lawsuit filed Oct. 27, RFP LLC, which publishes and distributes Bridal Guide Magazine, said SCVNGR used the phrase “Race for the Rock’’ to advertise at least five scavenger hunts in Illinois, Kentucky, New York, and Wisconsin. RFP trademarked the term in 2006 to market contests of its own and is asking the Southern District Court of New York to award it at least $500,000 in damages and all the profits SCVNGR has made from the contests in question.
In its suit, RFP said it notified SCVNGR of the trademark infringement in a Sept. 21 letter but got no response. The suit also contains a letter from a SCVNGR client who was notified by RFP about the “unauthorized’’ use of its trademark. That client, Bremer Jewelry in Peoria, Ill., said it had asked SCVNGR to stop using the “Race for the Rock’’ phrase in promotional material.
A spokesman for SCVNGR said the company had no comment.
Crazy work hours in nothing new in this world. Have you have been in the Investment Banker world in NY? 100 hours a week is slacking....
Great point, totally agree, especially as I get older. One thing that would have helped in terms of credibility would have been for Matt to acknowledge that his company competes with Seth's just to get it out there - kind of awkward and you don't get the full perspective if you don't know that. It doesn't change the point, but it is part of the equation. Kudos to Greg Huang for pointing it out in his post: http://www.xconomy.com/boston/2010/12/03/punchbowl-throws-a-punch-checking-in-is-out-techstars-boston-changes-guard-some-tech-tidbits/
It has been my experience that people who work crazy hours are usually very disorganized and have low productivity. These people usually complain of being "too busy" and are jumping from task to task leaving everything half done for other people to clean up. Getting caught in the wake of a person like this will age you and ultimately kill you dead.
Why are people making such a big deal out of this? The startup lifestyle is nothing new. Most people go through cycles where they prioritize one part of their life over another, then it has a way of balancing out through marriage, having kids, etc. Seth is a young guy in his early 20's, and if you're going to make this type of commitment, now is the time. It might not be healthy over the long term, but he's a passionate guy with an awesome idea and great vision, and SCVNGR's early success is further motivating him. Oh, and the vast majority of SCVNGR's employees are also in the their 20's. My bet is they all will have a (more comfortable) life in the not too distant future when SCVNGR is acquired by Google or Facebook.
Let's focus on something here: Seth does not represent the entire tech start-up industry; he is rather a player in it. And to comment on some other bloggers points, his life style/where is he is in life is COMPLETELY different than yours. What do you care if he sleeps at the office? How does it effect you that he is deeply committed to making his start-up an game-changing success (no pun intended)? Does this bother you on some personal level? You preach about being the adult, but let's face it, you need to grow up for talking down on someone's lifestyle just because you don't see yourself or those you work with doing it. That's fine, but let it be.
I work in the space, and I know SCVNGR employees. They are hard, hard workers, and Seth's work ethic does have an effect on theirs. BUT, it does not consume them. They love their jobs, have good work-life balances, and if anything, Seth's passion motivates them to make SCVNGR the biggest success it can be. Life's about choices, and the thing about choices is, they're your own
Seth is following a path that so many of us have tried and jumped off -- exactly why starting our own company and driving it to success was so appealing in the first place. We want more than the same corporate experience, to feel like we get to choose our destiny and contribute something worthwhile. My Life List (www.mylifelist.org) exists to help people assess their major life goals and reach them, so this is a topic crucial to our mission.
This mentality lies at the root of generations' worth of physical and emotional malaise and social issues. Now it is creating a rift in the modern innovation community, and it's getting easier to see who wants to own and grow a company and who's just looking for early exit. Young entrepreneurs are coming into the startup environment, building a work culture environment no different than an investment bank, newsroom or chain gang. His benchmarks for success are being set by investors and he has to please them. In order to do that, he has to create the illusion of value and work (or say he's working) in a way that they can understand.
The great challenge is to create a startup that can achieve work-life balance for its owner and staff AND reach commercial success. Can this be done by following the corporate model? It hasn't yet. Seth will burn out just like anyone else who's worked that way, and then he'll (hopefully) have his epiphany. Then we'll see what his work day looks like. It's just a matter of what we value.
@ses:
> This doesn't mean I'm not cut out for running a business, it just means I'm not mindlessly focused on it to the point that it consumes my life.
Yes, it does.
You really make it seem so easy with your presentation but I find this matter to be really something that I think I would never understand. It seems too complicated and extremely broad for me. I am looking forward for your next post, I will try to get the hang of it!
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